That's fine, they can be salty. It's emblematic of a program that chants SEC because they need to ride the coattails of the conference to be relevant.
That goal line stand was a thing of beauty.
That was awesome!
Celebrating horizontal football since 2011
I’m honestly surprised the folks at WRNL don’t chant “Big Twelve, Big Twelve” for the exact same reasons
That's why you're the judge and I'm the law-talking guy.
They seriously trash-talked our players while visiting sick children? What kind of asshole thinks that's a good idea?
Lead singer of Mike Milligan and the Kitchen Brothers
Oh. My. God.
Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in.
It could also be added that the coaching/medical staff was okay with sending their starting rb back in after he was knocked unconscious. The ESPN sideline reporter I think described what she saw as watching his eyes roll in the back of his head. The whole thing from the jump was hot trash.
Im always thankful that we as a fan base only have to defend coaching bonuses for 8 wins, horizontal offensive strategies and the idea of punting is winning, rather than talking shit during a hospital visit or scandals surrounding abuse or negligence.
And now Miss St is refuting that report, but we SAW IT WITH OUR OWN EYES the guy collapse on the sideline. When a dude collapses and three other players/coaches have to hold him up, he's done for the day (at least that half). He was back in the game. Inexcusable. They are very lucky he didn't take another shot because if he did it would be national news with an official investigation.
Honestly, their behavior the entire game was borderline unsportsmanlike. There could have easily been 3-4 more flags for late hits, taunting, pushing guys down again once they were tackled, etc.
And what kind of monsters start talking shit while visiting sick kids? Even if they were just joking, it speaks to their character. They are undisciplined and out of control and it cost them several times in that game.
"Everybody got distracted by last week's game. Last week's game doesn't mean crap. It's what you do today." — Kirk Ferentz
What was really interesting is that the sideline reporter that made the report that he lost consciousness and his eyes "rolled back" into his head was indeed standing a few feet away from him (you can see her in the replay standing there). She also later reported that MSU's AD told her that didn't happen.
HIGHER ORDER THINKING AND OUTRAGE ONLY
The way everyone reacted on the sideline it sure looked like there was a medical situation going on. I was thinking it was more “serious” (heart attack or something) based on the way he just collapsed.
I hope the kid is okay short and long term. As a football fan this behavior needs to stop immediately. The game is dangerous enough already.
Collapsing + eyes rolling back into head are symptoms of a traumatic brain injury. He could have been killed when he was sent back into the game.
Remember too, reporters tend to exaggerate at times for the dramatic effect...
"Boys do what they want to do, men do what they need to do". Norm Parker
Let's not go there, UtahHAWK. We all saw that shit live. In five seconds my emotions went from "YAY GOOD TACKLE" to "HOLY COW STOP THE GAME AND CALL 911". And that reporter whom you are kinda/sorta calling a liar was just a few yards away from the young man when he collapsed like a sack of potatoes on national television.
And I'll go ahead and say that this vague "all reporters suck" media-bashing you appear to be doing here is dancing right on the NO POLITICS line given the documented tendency of some political figures to consciously foment sweeping distrust of the press among their supporters. Journalists have difficult and important jobs, and their profession is indispensable for a healthy and functional society.
CAUTION: May go on prolonged rants about Gary Barta and Bruce Harreld without warning.
Wow! Try some decaf HOLLYWOOD. I’m not sure how young you are but SPORTS reporters have always strived for dramatics, it’s their job and my comment was completely random, I wasn’t there, were you?
As far as POLITICS goes you brought that up, not me son.
You didn't say "sports reporters". You said "reporters." Even if you had qualified your comment initially as only pertaining to sports reporters, it was still a bullshit generalization. I'm well into my 40s and the simple fact is that I have seen sports reporters that fall everywhere on the spectrum from sensationalism to "just-the-facts" to those who have served the public heroically by exposing corruption and criminality their own employers (*cough* ESPN *cough*) would rather sweep under the rug so they could continue verbally fellating their favorite brand name programs.
You're wrong about sports reporters, and if you wanted to constrain your wrongness to sports reporters, then you should have said "sports reporters" in your original comment, and I would have just LAWLed at you for being wrong. Instead your comment read like the same pernicious dog whistles we've been hearing about journalists for decades from people trying to avoid the inconvenience of having the public know of their shenanigans. You are responsible for your own damn words, son, and I stand behind my previous comment 100%.
"all reporters suck"
Not even close to what was said by UtaHAWK. If he danced on the politics line (narrator: he didn't) you streaked across it, bare for all to see.
Hope the kid is ok. That really should be the takeaway.
Ah I see. So political comments are FINE as long as you're sneaky about it, but SHITTY if you're responding with honesty and transparency to someone else's sneaky bullshit. Got it.
It wasn't political at all. It wasn't sneaky political. it wasn't blatantly political. He was questioning a comment made by a reporter.
Your response, however, was extremely political. That doesn't change simply because you're convinced that it was couched in honesty and transparency.
The irony is that I agree with you. Reporters and journalists are valuable. I have reporters who are friends. They get little credit for dealing with some serious bullshit. I'm sure UtaHAWK agrees with that, too. But that isn't the issue. The issue is that he made a simple comment questioning the validity of an statement made by an ESPN reporter/commentator (something that happens ALL THE TIME, HERE, rightly so). You put words in his mouth.
Your points are well-taken, Ronnie, and I'm willing to back off of my accusatory tone. In the context of what I saw and where the reporter was, I strongly disagree that "reporters exaggerate" is a good reason to doubt what this reporter said about this incident. Mississippi State's AD is trying to pull a "Who do you believe: Us or your lying eyes?" That's fucking disgusting on their part, and I think the reporter got it right. I disagree with UH's take, but I don't think UH sucks. Mississippi State sucks.
Apologies for escalating things.
100% on the same page w/ you.
You know jMSU is garbage when their BS antics pit good Hawk fans against one another; especially during such a foot-moving time. Apologies not necessary; only mutual Hawk love.
Hawks by a million.
I'm sorry, but there are people in the media that are misleading to down right spreading misinformation. I do not believe this happens much in sports; however, I can assure you we are not told the complete truth in a lot of areas of the national media.
They took an injury timeout for a guy that wasn't even on the field. I'm pretty sure he wasn't just taking a nap.
That being said, it looked to me like he passed out from heat exhaustion. It didn't look like he was hit in the head, but I might've missed it. Heat exhaustion happened to me and my eyes rolled back in my head. For some strange reason, many of their players had hydration issues. If that was the case, it's still life-threatening for him to go back out there. Kids die from that stuff.
Just out of curiosity, what did you see on your TV screen that led you to believe that, at that moment, that player was suffering from "heat exhaustion" and not a serious brain injury from the violent collision he was just in?
I saw a guy jog off the field under his own power, then sit down, then lie down. The replay didn't seem to show him getting hit in the head by a player or by the ground (again, unless I missed it which is certainly possible). A guy that gets knocked out typically goes down right when he is hit. The fact that other players were cramping made a heat problem seem plausible. In either cases, it would be risking the guy's health to put him back on the field. We've read plenty of stories about players dying on the field from heat.
Finally got a better look at this, you are correct he got off of the field on his own power, but he went to immediately lying down. It looks like he and the Iowa Defender (Ojemudia) banged helmets (side of helmets) on that play and you could tell that Hill was shaken up by that due to his stumbling to get up. He was the rusher on the previous play as well, could definitely be dehydration, especially if he had not been taking care of himself previously. I don't think it was cramping, because they were attending to his upper body, but I also don't think he was unconscious because he was still moving the entire time (his legs were under his own power as he went to lay down).
Either way, I don't think it was smart to put him back in after that play, he was clearly facing SOME issue, even if he was able to "play through" it depending on what actually happened, it could be very damaging in the end.
Dropping the numbers in favor of fun
He looked woozy to me as he moved off the field, albeit did not have anyone assist him until the sideline.
I never wanted to Fire Ferentz. Good bye and good luck, Gary.
For some strange reason, many of their players had hydration issues. If that was the case, it's still life-threatening for him to go back out there. Kids die from that stuff.
cough, rhabdo, cough, cough...
I strongly prefer winning over losing.
Barta says it didn't happen.
Yeah, we only have to defend that because our coach covered sexual assault situations, possibly ruined one RB's life because he sent him out with a concussion, and sent 13 kids to the hospital.
Yeah, one fun win and pretend like this guy is a saint. Sports fans are stupid.
Honest question - when did Ferentz cover sexual assault allegations? Did I miss something?
There is scuttlebutt about KF during the Everson/Satterfield fiasco.
Interesting. I had always defended him, considering neither ever suited up again once allegations surfaced, so I'd be curious to hear the story.
I can't remember all the details, but rumor mill says he may have sent someone to the dorm rooms of Everson and Satterfield, to hide or cleanse some things.
You are correct, those two didn't play for Iowa again.
Here is an article about KF's response to some allegations.
Defiant Kirk Ferentz rejects the notion that he or anyone else connected with the Iowa football program attempted to “brush aside” allegations made by the mother of a victim in a sexual assault case involving two Iowa football players.
“You can question my ability to coach, you can question my decisions during a game, you can question a lot of things, but to question my character, I take exception to that,” Ferentz said Thursday at the Big Ten’s annual football kickoff.
The 10th-year Iowa coach spoke publicly for the first time since the Iowa Board of Regents voted to reopen an investigation into the university’s handling of the matter.
Regents took that action Tuesday after learning two letters sent by the mother of the female involved in the alleged incident had not been forwarded to the Regents as part of their earlier investigation.
The first of two letters sent by the parent was detailed in a copyright story by the Iowa City Press-Citizen last weekend, alleging athletic department members wanted to keep the matter in house to avoid publicity.
“Anybody involved in a cover-up would have to be morally bankrupt,” Ferentz said.
Two former Iowa football players, Abe Satterfield and Cedric Everson, are accused of sexually assaulting a female Iowa athlete in a university dormitory in October, 2007.
Everson has been charged with second-degree sexual assault, while Satterfield was charged with second- and third-degree sexual assault.
The two players were withheld from team activities immediately once Ferentz learned of accusations and were later suspended from the team. Both transferred from Iowa at the end of the fall semester.
Ferentz said as football coach, he does not possess the power to revoke an athlete’s scholarship, remove an athlete from school or even remove an athlete from a dormitory.
“I acted on the things a football coach can act on,” Ferentz said. “There was not much more any of us could do or could have done from a coaching standpoint. We took action based on the information available to us.“
He confirmed Thursday that he and director of athletics Gary Barta were among those attending a meeting with the victim within 36 hours after the alleged incident occurred.
“I was uncomfortable being there, but at the time we walked away feeling it was a very productive meeting,” Ferentz said.
Although university policy does not require his attendance, Ferentz said he did so at the insistence of the involved female.
“My actions, at every step of the way, have been done in the interest of concern for the young woman and her family,” Ferentz said. “I think the proper steps were followed every step of the way.”
The father of two college-age daughters, Ferentz said he is sensitive to the type of situation he found himself talking about Thursday.
“This is the stickiest type of situation that a coach deals with, the most unsavory and most distasteful,” he said. “This is first time I have been involved with one and I hope it is the last.”
Ferentz isn’t surprised the general conduct of the Hawkeyes team is under a microscope.
“We’ve opened the door for the type of attention we’ve received,” Ferentz said. “Some of it has been fair, some of it hasn’t, but you can expect negative reporting when the reports are being written about negative behavior.“
A total of 18 Iowa football players have been arrested on 23 offenses in Johnson County since April 2007, including 11 alcohol-related changes.
Hawkeyes involved in incidents since March 1 are subject to stiffer punishments.
That includes incoming freshman Riley Reiff, who was charged with public intoxication and interference with official acts early Saturday after leading eight Iowa City police officers on a 20-minute foot chase through downtown Iowa City shortly after police received a call concerning a man sitting in an alley clothed only in his underwear, according to police reports.
“It’s fair to say his incident is being treated a lot differently than it would have been if it had occurred a year ago. The punishment, it will hurt a lot more,” said Ferentz, declining to discuss specifics.
Ferentz's tone deafness in the face of a crisis has always been a blind spot for him. That said, the most recent of the scandals you mentioned happened nearly eight years ago and Iowa football hasn't really had to deal with any major issues since then*.
It's possible there continues to be an active attempt to suppress scandals. It's possible that the absence of major issues can be attributed to dumb luck. As the years tick by scandal free, however, I like to believe it's because Ferentz learned from the mistakes made in the Everson/Satterfield investigation, Rhabdogate, and the treatment of players like Robinson. I like to believe these events have improved Iowa football culture to the point that the press has largely been quiet save for the occasional stupid individual choice (e.g. thinking a police cruiser is an Uber).
* Barta has the market cornered on outrageous scandal in the Iowa athletic department at this point. An alternative theory is that Barta doesn't want any competition.
Mississippi State was and is incredibly mouthy and cocky for a team that basically has no history of being good ever. Three 10 win seasons ever...1940, 1999, and 2014. And really it's only since 2010 that they've been any good at all.
Since that time we've had an undefeated regular season, but sure...somehow we are just lucky to be there and they are world-beater? And we won the game. But somehow, Iowa is inferior.
Now I'm starting to understand just how delusional the fanbases of middle-to-lower tier SEC teams are.
There's some pretty delusional Iowa fans too.
Once scissor-kicked Angela Lansbury at Moroccan casino. She knows what she did!! Best friends with Bill Brasky
There are definitely delusional Iowa fans, but the most vocal ones (at least on the internet and on talk radio) seem to veer more towards unwarranted cynicism rather than boundless optimism. Compare the amount of Iowa fans predicting that Iowa would get curb-stomped by Miss State as opposed to those who were picking a comfortable Iowa win.
The contrast is especially notable when you realize there is a fan base in the state that wants to build a statue of their coach for putting up the same record the Iowa fans want to run KF out of town for.
Of course. But to suggest MSU is some powerhouse, either historical or currently is laughable. We're both middle of pack teams.
To suggest MSU is middle-of-the-pack historically is also laughable. Prior to the past decade or so, they were the Iowa State of the SEC
"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull." - W.C. Fields
Disagree, Rocky! Iowa State has good academics. MSU was more like the Kansas State (Before Bill Snyder) of the SEC.
Not that I'm mad at you for dissing ISU football, though. :D
Iowa State vs Mississippi State would be fun. I can see the trash talking already.
Iowa State: Actually Using Cowbells
Iowa State vs. Mississippi State is sad.
Mississippi State has a higher winning percentage and a better bowl record.
Iowa State has "double" MSU's conference titles (2 as opposed to 1) and "double" MSU's consensus All-Americans (4 as opposed to 2)
They're honestly about equal
lol, yeah, they are a natural pair of idiot fanbases.
Iowa State: Actually Using Cowbells
Dont put it past them. They will put it on a t-shirt and claim they are being ironic.
"There is no reason in the world why we shouldn't fight for the preservation of a chance to live freely, no reason why we shouldn't suffer to uphold that which we want to endure." -Nile Kinnick
Where's IrrationalIowaFan when we need him?
One to add to the "Ugly" column is ISM's fumble on the kickoff. He has largely gotten away with carrying the football like a loaf of bread all year, and that was bound to happen. Actually, I think the same thing happened when he hurdled a defender in the Minnesota game on a kickoff, but he quickly recovered it. He and Smith are going to play a big role in the offense next year, and ISM has to get better with ball security.
I can't believe the coaching staff hasn't put a hard stop to the hurdling. Guys have been doing it all season and every time I think they're either going to fumble or get hurt.
What sort of backwards fucking pageantry is that?
I am actually happy that they have been hands off with ISM. He seems like the type of guy that would have been benched in favor of Kyle Groeneweg/other random walk-on in previous years. Instead, they have decided to accept the occasional over-aggressive mistake in order to get potential for game-changing plays, which he has provided often. I thought the re-kick due to penalty was a great example of that. On the first kick, ISM tried one of the dumbest returns I have ever seen. It was Jonathan Parker-esquire, and he lost like ten yards (which is really hard to due on a kickoff!). They left him in for the re-kick, and he had a great return— something like 25-30 yards.
Also, ISM somehow set the Outback record for kick return yards, which I really don’t understand.
Great points, and I think you are right, I'm glad to see that the coaching staff have overlooked some of ISM's mistakes and let him go with it.
But I think the ball security thing still doesn't make sense in that regard. He's shown a willingness to carry that thing like Ed Reed/Deion Sanders all year, and telling him to hold that thing high and tight isn't going to neuter him.
Totally agree, noticed they seem to take the risk-is-worth-the-reward approach with ISM. He's sure is fun as hell to watch!
I didn't break my leg for no shit. -Drake Kulick
Hockenson pulled off one or two successful hurdles.
I like Smith-Marsette but he was playing hero ball yesterday. Twice he reversed field on plays trying to pick up extra yards and lost yards instead. That fumble on the kick off he was trying to be Superman.
Possible he saw the offsides flag on the return and figured it was a free play.
Yeah, I didn't see the flag so I was screaming, "WHY ARE YOU RUNNING THE WRONG WAY?"
Then they mentioned the flag and I realized he was doing the smart thing.
ISM pretty much always looks like he's on the verge of either fumbling or being literally broken in half by people with approximately 1,000,000,000 times more muscle mass on their frames than he has. The coaches seem to like him and play him despite him not being 100% coach's pet/robot. I suspect this is mostly due to 2 reasons: 1) he is genuinely a nice, hard-working guy, and 2) We don't have much other WR talent. ISM does have some nice talent, especially on returns, and both he and Brandon Smith could have breakout years next year, or they could largely disappear and underachieve. I have higher hopes for Brandon Smith, but who knows...they are the Isaiah Moss of the football program.
Well, sorry Clanga. I guess if I hadn’t won my conference since 1941 or my division since 1998 or only had a whopping two Consensus All-Americans in 124 seasons, I’d be salty too. Sucks to suck.
The Mississippi State players and Twittersphere have a deeply-rooted Little Brother syndrome going on.
"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer." -Frank Zappa
Doing that kind of shit in front of sick kids is ridiculous. That said, why are we sending walk-ons?! Like, come on. I know our team spends more time at our Children's Hospital than most teams do anything, but still.
I think they have generally done this. On the washed up walk ons podcast they told a story about the LSU bowl game. Apparently LSU sent their big guys and there is a comical picture of Iowa's walk ons dwarfed by LSU's guys who I think are all in the NFL.
According to the WUW podcast the visit was during Iowa practice so they send the walk on and injured players. Not sure if that holds true to this year or not.
That makes more sense
I saw it as a nod to guys that have worked their asses off and weren't going to be on the field. Coaches know there will be a camera crew there. Show those guys some love.
I agree with this. I doubt there are very many sick kids in Tampa, Florida who've been dreaming of the day TJ Hockenson or Anthony Nelson would pay them a visit. Of course, it's for the kinds, but it's also an opportunity for the players to have a special experience and gain some perspective on things, etc., and it's a very nice thing in my view that the Iowa coaches gave the opportunity to some players who have been toiling in obscurity for the team.
Except it isn't about them, it's about children. If they wanted to show these players some love, they could have them interviewed by media after the game about the experience or something. If it was during the practice, as mentioned; cool. If not, it seems like a half-assed effort.
To be fair, it's not entirely clear that it happened in front of any sick kids. I mean, it's still not good but I don't want to give the impression that the trash talk was happening in front of anyone.
Hawkeye Compliance is stalking me on Twitter.
Maybe it is a Ferentz hat tip to Hayden for sending out linemen to practice punting before a Michigan game. Apparently Bo asked him about the shitty warm up results and Hayden later admitted he did it just to mess with him. KF's strategy is hoping once the MSU players see the not yet Doylized walk ons, they underestimate IA players, lose focus and don't prepare as they should...
Cussin' the Hawks since 1971!
Kirk Tears (trademarked by the University of Iowa)
Excuse me. I think you mean the McDonald Optical/Culligan Water Kirk Tears.
The Case IH red-eye zone
Texas won a lot more than the Sugar Bowl in that one hospital visit alone...
my eyes go all Kirk watching that one...
now residing in the frozen tundra up nord der
I regret that I have but one AP to give to this comment
Just what did the MSU players hope to accomplish by introducing themselves as AA and draft picks? For all of Iowa's faults, it certainly isn't lacking in either of those categories. I doubt any of Iowa's players would be intimidated or in awe of a player who 1) Is an All American, or 2) is so little-known that he must introduce himself that way. Insecurity at its finest.
-signed Greg Davis, National Champion Offensive Coordinator
I believe this was a wasted "SCOREBOARD" moment - 25 to 17
Co-signed Matt Campbell, five-time national champion
A comparison between Iowa and Mississippi State is bound to come up badly for the Bulldogs
Heck, there are probably at least 15 counties in Pennsylvania alone, and a few in Iowa, with more consensus All-Americans than MSU all-time
All-time record: 650-557-39 (.537)
Bowl record: 16-15-1
Unbeaten seasons: 4 (last in 1922)
Conference titles: 13 (11 Big Ten)
Consensus All-Americans: 27
Heisman winners: 1
Against rivals: Iowa has played the two most powerful Big Ten teams – Michigan and Ohio State – a cumulative 125 times. Iowa has had 15 wins against each (30 total), along with a total of 88 losses and 7 ties. Iowa’s winning percentage against these two combined is 24%. Which is, frankly, respectable for a team from a low-population state, a team that struggled through decades of futility between Evashevski and Fry.
Mississippi State football!
All-time record: 563-578-39 (.494)
Bowl record: 13-9
Unbeaten seasons: 1 (in 1940)
Conference titles: 1 (in 1941 – LOL even Indiana is better)
Consensus All-Americans: 2 (LOL!)
Against rivals: Mississippi State has played its most powerful rival – Alabama – 99 times. That’s a winning percentage of about 16%. Their record against ‘Bama is 16-80-3. MSU’s record against its second most powerful rival – LSU – is better, but LSU is historically weak in comparison to either Michigan or Ohio State.
Lowly Indiana has had more conference titles and consensus All-Americans than Klanga-Starkville. Ditto Northwestern.
My God I love facts.
Punting is a bold strategy, let's see if it pays off for them.
As do I :)
I would never have guessed Miss State's bowl record was that good.
They've been scrappy-to-good about 3 or 4 years of my life,
the other 30 or more years they've been cheaters or bad.
Nebraska made a bowl at 5-7.
Everyone getting all excited about the B1G bowl record should be cheering hard for the B1G to miss the CFP and have the SEC place two teams. Silly, really.
That would have been a great opportunity to respond with "College graduate, college graduate, college graduate. Nice to meet you."
So what convinces Ferentz to go with a power rush attack a la Wisconsin rather than zones? Nothing, I presume? The zone scheme works great against overmatched competition, but we don't have that in the big games.
Granted, Mississippi State was loading the box, but I have to feel like we could have at least gotten positive rush yards with an easier scheme to master.
I was thinking that KF wasn’t able to recruit true tackles consistently enough to go with a power running scheme. Look at WI’s OLine. They usually average at 320lbs or more. Iowa typically has a couple of players in the 300lb range, but we certainly don’t average in that 320 range. Heck, even our star tackles are typically more like guards (Gallery, Scherff). With power running, you rely on those big guys to overpower the defensive line. With zone blocking, you’re essentially trying to use your footwork to force the defense to make a mistake. If you play a defense that stays disciplined or that has a couple of studs on the line, your running game is pretty screwed, at least without a playmaker like Wadley or a bruiser like Greene.
With all of that said, we actually have bigger, stronger guys on the line right now and could probably be successful with man-to-man/power running. Is KF willing to adjust? Who knows.
Waiting for the next time Michigan comes to visit
Mind you, I didn't watch yesterday's game, so I can't comment on what Iowa did. But I think Iowa has definitely been running more man-to-man/power. Just not as much as I think they should.
Sounds like the answer is more cheese curds.
Osirus Mitchell: “We definitely beat ourselves the whole game. They weren’t better than us.”
Orly? You ran your bread and butter offensive play from the one-yard line and couldn't reach the endzone. My friend, that's the very definition of getting beat -- getting stopped trying to do your best thing when it counts.
Iowa will also have something MSU can only dream of...a whole boatload of class.
"Class? Ha. We ain't come to play school."
Yeah, for all of our complaints about Stanley, he has thrown for 52 TDs in the last 2 years. MissSt had a QB that looked like he couldn't complete 52 passes in 2 years. That was the worst offense on a winning team I've ever seen.
Everyone is talking about Iowa's rushing struggles. I'll go ahead and post this here for everyone's perusal.
Here are the S&P rushing stats for Iowa and Wisconsin since 2005.
Wisconsin #2, Iowa #119
Wisconsin #24, Iowa #62
Iowa #33, Wisconsin #48
Iowa #59, Wisconsin #80
Wisconsin #10, Iowa #109
Wisconsin #5, Iowa #69
Wisconsin #39, Iowa #81
Wisconsin #3, Iowa #44
Wisconsin #4, Iowa #51
Wisconsin #20, Iowa #91
Wisconsin #15, Iowa #10
Wisconsin #19, Iowa #71
Iowa #33, Wisconsin #74
Iowa #24, Wisconsin #54
There are basically 5 possible standards here: Very good/excellent, above-average, average, below-average, and crap
Ah, for the glory of 2008, when Shonn Greene frightened linebackers and pulverized safeties. Since then Iowa’s rushing game has mustered 4 crap seasons, 5 average seasons, and 1 above-average seasons. Meanwhile, Wisconsin has only had one team with a below-average rushing attack (2015). Every other unit was at least respectable, and most were quite good.
Other than Melvin Gordon, who is awesome, and kinda sorta Jonathan Taylor, Wisconsin has been doing this with very good running backs, but not necessarily ones who are whole leaps and bounds better than what Iowa has had. In my opinion, anyway (I was never big on PJ Hill, for one thing). I didn’t bother to check which program has had more NFL linemen recently, but I’d guess it’s roughly even. Iowa has had better tight ends.
And of course, aside from one season with Russell Wilson, Wisconsin's QBs have all been statues. So there's no spread offense helping them out. Not like Bucky's pass protection has always been great either. I thought their passing attack, and passing game in general, were crap this season.
I make no effort towards big observations or analysis here, but, Iowa should be doing better.
I agree that their RBs haven't been all on the level of Gordon or Taylor, but they've had plenty of RBs that we would be bragging about. Corey Clement and James White are both still in the NFL and fairly productive. Montee Ball would have won the heisman had he been on an SEC team.
I agree that their line probably has a slight edge over the same time span, but there was a reasonable difference with some of the RBs in play. They never made Mark Weisman a 12 game starter.
This brings up one of those other college football questions that I just can't figure out. Why can't Wisconsin recruit some really good QBs? It seems like an easy pitch to say, "We run the ball well, we have a good O-line, we frequently have double digit wins and play in Big Ten championship and New Years 6 games. All we need is you to be in the playoff." Madison is a fun town, the fans love the Badgers. What gives? Do they somehow repel very good QBs, do they not target them well, or do they somehow turn them into average QBs?
I'm not intelligent enough to be able to analyze the UW passing scheme
I suspect it suffers from ....
1) Relatively mediocre receivers. Other than Abbrederis, there have been few UW receivers of impressive ability in the past decade
2) Inferior tight ends vis-a-vis Iowa. Loved Fumagalli, but man, there's just no comparison to Iowa's TE production
3) UW's passing game, which is very old-school, is bad against faster defenses.
Oddly enough, the impression I get is that Iowa's passing offense (post-Davis) is more suited, partly because their tight ends create mismatch problems, and partly because Iowa has had better receivers on average.
Let me run through the S&P passing data and see how Iowa and UW compare.
As for quarterbacks, I'm guessing that there aren't very many guys around who both fit UW's style and can run. The few who are (like Shea Patterson, I suppose) get snatched up by teams with more money and power.
Here's the S&P for passing offenses the last 10 years with these teams
Wisconsin #80, Iowa #101
Wisconsin #7, Iowa #28
Wisconsin #13, Iowa #74
Wisconsin #39, Iowa #43
Wisconsin #60, Iowa #61
Wisconsin #42, Iowa #57
Wisconsin #27, Iowa #98
Wisconsin #1, Iowa #43
Wisconsin #9, Iowa #29
Wisconsin #10, Iowa #57
Iowa #34, Wisconsin #50
A few thoughts
I have no clue how Wisconsin's passing offense got to be rated so highly in statistical terms last year.
Secondly, I haven't done enough work with S&P to know how to frame this stuff.
Iowa is perfectly average most of the time. This year was actually shockingly bad for passing. 2012 was another horrible year.
And in case you're wondering, yes, Iowa's defense and special teams really did carry them this season.
MSU's attempts to deride Iowa as the lesser team and frame the Outback Bowl as an instance of "we beat ourselves" is part and parcel to the tired SEC vs. Big Ten narrative: Freakishly stacked SEC squad takes on Big Ten bruiser and can obviously only lose if they hand the game to the plebeians through mistakes and poor execution, as if limiting mistakes and executing a game plan weren't also linchpins for a quality team.
That kind of hack narrative plays into the same racist bullshit that has white players labeled as "scrappy" or "hustlers" on a basketball court.
A magical night in Cleveland.
as if limiting mistakes and executing a game plan weren't also linchpins for a quality team.
Exactly this. You can have all the talent in the world but if you can't play the game without making mistakes or committing penalties you're going to have a hard time winning. It's not like MSU is Alabama and Iowa is Old Dominion. You can usually get away with being undisciplined against teams that are vastly inferior to you- you can't get away with playing like jackasses when your opponent is disciplined and competent.
I would argue that MSU, on paper, should have won this game but the game isn't played on paper. You have to go out and play and they came up short against a much more disciplined and sound Iowa squad.
My biggest takeaway from this game other than being glad we have someone like Kirk instead of MSU's coach: MSU is now my most hated SEC team and I will make it a point to watch Alabama stomp their asses in next season.
If you want a vision of the future, imagine Kirk Ferentz clapping and chewing gum in your face - forever.
I agree wholeheartedly on this entire sentiment. One thing that sort of crystalized for me this bowl season - I might dislike Alabama because they're great, but it's jealousy based rather than "they're jackasses". MSU, and much of the rest of the SEC, is proving themselves to be in the "They're jackasses" category. I am a fervent Kirk apologist mostly because he's proven to be a good man, and doesn't allow jackasses on his team, results or talent be damned.
MSU is now my most hated SEC team and I will make it a point to watch Alabama stomp their asses in next season.
Really? That seems like a lot of effort for a team no one around here paid any attention to at all until last month. I'm comfortable going back to giving MSU as much thought and consideration as I always have. Which is to say, absolutely none. And I dated an MSU grad for a year and half.
To my knowledge no SEC team or fanbase have behaved like this way toward us (the fans) or the team.
The Good: Iowa is contractually prohibited from playing in the Outback Bowl again next year.
The Bad: If any team of geniuses can find a loophole in that contract to get Iowa back to the Outback Bowl next year, it’s this guy and Gary Barta.
The Ugly: Iowa will definitely go to the Outback Bowl next year.
I read this and laughed. Then I cried. Then I curled up in the fetal position because I know it to be a haunting vision of events yet-to-come
"...a haunting vision of events yet-to-come."
@ Yep, what a hell we may face! @
Just don't lose to PSU again. I've had enough of Franklin's ineptitude at game management and player preparation. There needs to be karma. If he had the Iowa job, with Iowa's talent, you guys would hate Franklin far more than Ferentz.
I'd like to add to the "good" (and I realize many may not agree) - Brian Ferentz. His in-game adjustment to more early-down throws, and more passing in general, was when we started to move the ball what little bit we did. It was kind of funny, probably 5 minutes before the long Easley TD, I texted my brother "how about we try throwing on early downs?" to which he added "and use play action." Lo and behold...
As also stated above, I'm not sure why we don't incorporate more power running concepts. Zone against that team was always going to be a bad idea. Not surprisingly, we ran power straight at them late and picked up 5 yards. Not that we would've been running all over them, but I have to think we wouldn't have been running for negative yardage every play.
As for the hospital, maybe we can send the Dallas Clarks of the world along to announce themselves as "walk on All-American"
I was only following the game via Gamecast, but I’d have to agree with you, based on the limited amount I could see. He went to the pass - which was working - after the 20 scripted plays, and continued to adjust throughout.
I think this was one of Brian's better games. It's not backed up by a lot of the numbers, but given the match up I think they did quite well. Iowa was never going to be able to run the ball in this game, they weren't going to able to consistently string together long drives. They we're going to struggle with protection. In this game Iowa didn't stubbornly stick with an ineffective run get but adjusted and used a lot of shotgun and multiple WR sets with quick passing. Which allowed Iowa to utilize one of their advantages, good blocking WRs. Hockenson wasn't targeted enough but some credit probably goes to MSU for scheme, and some possibly on Stanley for not forcing it to him a bit.
I'll stick to praising Phil for another great game. Brian get's a gentleman's C for the effort. It shouldn't take him as long as it does to figure out what is and is not working
Think I'll watch that Easley TD on repeat all day today, no joke.
Having covered the statistical difference between Iowa and Wisconsin in the rushing department, I'm now going to describe WHAT has changed in college football to the detriment of the Iowa rushing attack.
As the mid-2000s went along, Chip Kelly and Rich Rodriguez commie spread ball became dominant. Sure, there were and are a few teams running meatball “power spread” ala Urban Meyer, but most other running spread teams were all sideways little fast people copycats of each other. Then Joe Moorhead, et al, added in the RPO dimension.
The effect: defenses got smaller.
Football coaches, by and large, are not that innovative. Most of them don’t have time, or brain power, to be innovative. So when one defensive coordinator responded to RichRods by recruiting “spacebackers” and 240-255 pound defensive ends, everyone started doing it. Anecdotally, Penn State’s defensive ends now are smaller than Josh Hull or Sean Lee (middle linebackers) were 10 years ago.
For Wisconsin, this was a good thing. Their power game got better for two reasons, one of which is because of the above. 1) Their offensive line coaching got better in general. 2) Wisconsin’s power game is absolute death to small anti-spread defenses. If Wisconsin had any ability at all to be truly dangerous throwing the ball, no one would stop them except the very best.
For Iowa, this was all a bad thing. These little guys are very effective against zone rushing teams. Just watch tape of the PSU-Iowa game the last few years. PSU’s small guys kick Iowa’s butt on zone plays.
So, as per usual, everyone changed except Iowa (or, really, Wisconsin – Wisconsin went to the 3-4, but their offense hasn’t changed much except for all that jet sweep stuff). College football offenses got quicker and smaller, so the defenses did the same, while Iowa sat over here saying, “Fuck you, we’re Iowa.”
Iowa is running the same plays they did 10-15 years ago, damn the rest. It actually reminds me of old man Paterno, whose offense was basically unchanged from 1990 to 2005.
As per usual, most people complain about it, and even I get tired of it, but I do appreciate a rock that won’t move in the face of a flood. Kirk reminds me of the Pennsylvania Railroad bridge at Johnstown. It’s still there. It’s been hit by gargantuan, indescribably violent floods – like the one in 1889 – but there it stands. I admire that.
BUT contrary to most Iowans’ (somewhat fair) negative perception of Ferentz, Captain Kirk is, in fact, changing. Or so it seems. But, being that he’s Kirk, he’s changing …. Slowly. He’s dabbling, if you will. Iowa ran somewhere around 10-15 ISO “straight power” plays against Penn State and results were, at least, average as opposed to bad (which is what the zone stuff produced).
Wisconsin (And Michigan) work on volume. A sleek, fast, and deep defense like PSU can absorb 10-15 “body blow” power O run plays, but, after 25 or 40, holes start to emerge.
So Kirk has to do more than dabble. He has to make a commitment to abandon the zone in favor of power O and whatnot.
Now, the other difficulty is that Ferentz generally preferred smaller linemen, for zone plays. Whereas Michael Onwenu at Michigan is like 360. And Wisconsin hasn’t had a guy under 315 in a long, long time. But Iowa does seem to be a bit bigger this year, so maybe Kirk is changing here.
Basically, Iowa needs to copy Wisconsin just like Wisconsin once copied Iowa. That’s my argument and I’m sticking to it. The only thing Iowa should do better is have decent quarterbacks, which Wisconsin doesn’t really do.
This is super insightful. If you had a newsletter, I would subscribe to it.
It might also be possible for Kirk (and Brian) to vacillate between zone blocking and power runs. Assuming they have time to teach the line how to do both. That would be a deadly combo.
This is great. 100% right on.
Very interesting read. You make some excellent points. Our percentile rankings have been poor over the time frame that you cite. I wonder if our yards per carry averages have also grown worse over that same time span? Obviously, with percentile rankings, another possibility is that other teams got better at running the ball (probably due to the spread/option) and we maintained a relatively constant level of performance that was pretty good in 2005 but is no longer good in 2018. If smaller defenses really are better at giving zone blocking schemes fits then our YPC averages should be trending downward, as defenses get smaller and quicker.
Another thing that I wonder about, which isn't mutually exclusive with your theory, is whether or not zone blocking is too difficult for collegiate athletes to master, given their relative lack of experience and practice time compared to professionals. Power run blocking seems simpler to execute than zone where you have all of these reads and precise timing. Maybe someone who knows football better than me can chime in here.
Finally, this has been discussed above so I won't say much, but Wisconsin has been quite a bit better than us at RB over the last ten years or so. It seems like every year they have a running back who goes on to have a solid pro career, not just a training camp body, but actually starting regular season games. Ball, White, Clement and Gordon all got major PT in the NFL and Jonathan Taylor obviously will too. During the timeframe you listed, we've had only one running back do anything in the NFL (Shonn Greene). It sure would have been nice to have David Johnson running behind Blythe, Scherff and Donnal. I don't think I'll ever get over Kirk not recruiting him.
Neil Peart stands alone
Here, have some of these smelling salts.
They have also lacked elite running backs capable of exploiting d lines that sell out to the strong side.
I also appreciate the care and insight you put into this. Your argument for a full shift to a straight power blocking scheme makes a lot of sense.
It seems like they're trying to teach both systems, which I would imagine is like learning two languages at once. The learning curve would be steeper, but it would be nice to have on your resume as a professional offensive lineman. That at least correlates with what we see on the field: surprisingly poor rushing numbers for a program that is arguably the NFL's best supplier of offensive linemen. Also seems consistent with hiring Polasek, who I don't think was much of a zone guy at NDSU?
Doyle is also a central feature of Iowa's system, building linemen out of TEs who like to hit people. So if we're continuing to use mostly 280-300 pound guys who are a little more agile, then it makes sense to run more zone concepts against undersized opponents, while maybe shifting to more power, pin, and pull against the big recruiters to our East.
Good: Awesome D that (per usual) kept the Hawks in this game, and that wonderful PA fake to Easley that got took to the house. Overall the Hawks deserved to win this game. They did have the lead for about 3 quarters, as well as at the conclusion of the only one that matters.
Bad: Run blocking was an absolute embarrassment. I know MSU is excellent up front, maybe the best Iowa faced this year. But looking at their schedule, there were at least 5 teams to run over 100 yds against them this year, one put up over 200 (not Alabama). Zero put up -15 on the ground. This staff needs to rethink their running game next year. It's not good. And it isn't the players.
Meh: the whole hospital trash-talking thing is not a big deal. Were the MSU players disrespectful to any patients or staff at the hospital? Hell, were they really even disrespectful to the Iowa players, or just maybe being cocky kids? Tempest in a teapot.
Formerly no one but currently someone - this has not been approved by Facebook.
Which teams were the ones to rush for more than 100 (or 200) yards against Miss St?
Making me do my homework, huh? Here goes:
KSU(114), Florida(118), LSU(110), Louisiana Tech(140), Alabama(142), and Kentucky(229).
Those aren't great numbers, but in general, teams who played MSU this year flatly did not abandon their running game like the Hawks were forced to. It's one thing to say after the game, "Golly Gee, they sure played a good running defense against us." It's a whole different thing to say, "Golly Gee, they beat us down in the running game like no other team they played against this year."
That said, the Hawks deserved to win. Despite the woeful running game. Despite the godawfully embarrassing punting effort.
I harp on this too much, probably, but I truly believe the staff needs to look in the mirror regarding the running game in particular. They have not been good at it for at least 10 years running now, and I am being nice. They have guys named Blythe, Yanda, Scherff, Bulaga, Daniels (and probably a host of others who I've forgotten) who've done pretty well blocking in the NFL, and played for the Hawks during this period of mediocrity. Someone should do some dot-connecting here during the off-season to determine how this math adds up, and why.